Bikram Yoga

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - The rotator cuff of the shoulders tends to be tight in such a way that the humerous rotates forward to an undesirable degree creating a pinching in the brachial plexus. This has negative effects on the circulatory, nervous, lymphatic, endocrine, and respiratory systems as well as negative psychological effects. The idea is not to force anything or make the back bunch up and become tense. Through asana training, the humerous should learn how to externally rotate (in most people).

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - The scapula should move closer together and down the back so that it supports the back of the rib cage and the trapezious muscles spread and elongate, taking pressure off the neck. 90% of people I see are badly deformed in this area. Many "modern" exercises exacerbate the problem. It cannot be corrected in 3 easy steps nor should it be forced. Over time, you learn how to make space in the appropriate areas in order to place the bones properly.

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - If you have ever had a good teacher adjust your shoulders while in corpse pose, that is the feeling you are looking for. Dan, do you have any expertise in this subject? You seem to be calling a lot of things silly and comparing people to monkeys. This is basic anatomy 101. The feet should face forward, maleoli on the sides. The scapula belong on the back ribs rather than splayed out to the sides. I'm glad, however, that you point out that the forced, tensed, compressed feeling is wrong. .

realitydan Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Hi Robert (the only guy who seems to be smart enough to question me, who I have much respect for). A good teacher wouldn't adjust your shoulders in corpse, as he doesn't know how a person doing corpse is feeling. A good teacher would teach someone how to learn to learn for themselves to notice the natural alignment of his/her arms. How can one be aware if they do not know their own natural alignment and want to be in the 'correct' posture all the time?

realitydan Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - It's beneficial to observe nature, plants, animals and humans. Many Yoga postures originate from this. Placing palms facing up and not allowing them to find their natural home distorts the image in the motor cortex (the centre responsible for all our alignment and movement). Any neurologist will tell you this too! It seems that the yoga I call 'silly' is purely anatomy 101 without the uniting of the mind/brain.

realitydan Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Please have a go with the lovely palm experiment. Feel what happens in your shoulder blades and spend a day with palms facing forwards, even try tapping on your keyboard with palms up. Im not saying it's 'wrong' to have palms facing forwards or backwards. I am just saying we should feel our anatomy and not just read it in a book as 'experts' often do. Have you had a go yet feeling what palm position does for the shoulders Rob? LOVE and PEACE

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - How can you sing the song if you've never heard the tune?Through much, much training under careful observation by senior teachers we learn how to make the adjustments. The purpose is to give the students the feeling they are looking to replicate. A good teacher certainly can look at a student and see that the bones are misaligned. I'm not talking about high velocity adjustments like a chiropractor. I can see the pressure in the neck when the scapula crowd the cervical vertebrae.

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Its not really the palms the teachers are trying to get to but rather the way the humerous sits in the shoulder joint, which has an effect on the aforementioned systems. Most of our bodies have become distorted through everyday living and poor habits. Beginners have no idea what the natural home for their wrist is. They cannot even feel the difference between the wrist rotating and upper arm rotating. Its all one to them. They have to be taught by experience and example.

realitydan Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - So why are students asked to tun the palms up in corpse in Ashtanga and Iyengar and most hatha yoga classes?

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - I really don't see the point of watching wild animals and plants as we are neither. Ask a student to sit,lie,or stand in any old way that is comfortable and they will choose whatever is familiar. Slouching is comfortable because it is familiar. Change is sometimes uncomfortable. Look at someone with a hollowed out chest and hunched shoulders and tell me does that person radiate confidence and wellness? Not only does the body change in yoga but also the mind and its perception of itself.

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - I can only speak for myself. I tell my students to turn the palms up not from the wrist but by turning the arm in the shoulder joint. Ideally I would have made reference to this and demonstrated what I mean earlier in the class. If the understanding is not there should I let them suffer? No. I will call all students around to watch as I make the adjustment on myself or a student whose body I am familiar with. In 10 years I've yet to have a student prefer to keep the hunch after experiencing this

realitydan Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Well. The greatest ancient yogis closely observed nature. We come from the earth that we share with with plants and animals. Also there is an interesting theory of evolution. Those students you mention don't know the difference between comfort and discomfort as they are used to being uncomfortable and feel that is 'normal'. From a scientific perspective what is the benefit of turning the wrist from the shoulders? Why ?

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Evolution. I see. You don't mean anatomical structure. You mean spiritually. Yes. We often don't realize how uncomfortable we are or how much tension we carry. We often pride ourselves on the amount of needless suffering we can endure. We don't know how good we can feel. How good life can be. Some of us don't believe we deserve to feel good. Everyone has there own issues. Yoga teaches how to analyze dispassionately and then evolve. First physical then mental, leading to spiritual.

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - I use that phrase because the distal portions of the body are easier to see and feel then the proximal body. Beginners can see the effects of the humerous turning easier then seeing the humerous itself turning. More advanced students do indeed have the ability to distinguish between feeling the humerous and the forearm. There maybe other reasons to keep the palms facing up. There's lots I don't know . Maybe sometimes its bad ! For best answers see a senior Iyengar teacher, which I am not.

realitydan Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - I have contacted the Iyengar institute and British Wheel of Yoga. Will let you know how they respond. I remember in India, some people doing an unusual gesture in a temple. So I asked why? They just didn't know and were asking one another why? I have a feeling that my questions to BWY and Iyengar will have a similar effect. Much love to everyone

RizdeeRosie Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - If you KNOW something is wrong with your knees (or any body part) and the teacher won't let you modify a pose, there's something wrong with the teacher. Don't go. Face it, Bikram's technique is geared for people who (think they) want something intense, and some fitness instructors (not just Bikram's yoga) think they're catering to that by being relentless. I love Bikram yoga, but had to stop (college & tuition bills took priority) and I miss it. If you like Brian Kest better, then bunk Bikram!

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - The student who was cautious with her knees is sensible. More troubling are students who wont back off. In virasana, for example, there are numerous modifications to accommodate knee problems. A-type personalities argue against recommendations because they don't want to "do it the weak way." Then I have to waste valuable class time bringing this person back to earth. This is the right way for you, at the moment. That is the right way for her, at the moment. More intense dose not mean better.

realitydan Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Hi Rob. Got some answers that are simply nonsense and some have honestly said they don't know. Iyengar himself still hasn't replied.LOVE to all

Markohoppis Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - 107 degrees? Can you imagine the smell of ass, armpit, and pussy in that room? WOW!

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Pick up a book on anatomy. The coloring books are best. Look at the rotator cuff muscles of the shoulder joint. They tend to become foreshortened so that the arm rolls forward (internal rotation). Turning the palm up and resting that way stretches the muscles so that the arm sits better in the shoulder joint (i.e. it doesn't roll forward) This has benefits physically, mentally and spiritually (see previous attempts to explain this to you) Do you understand now?

realitydan Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Hi Rob, thanks. Get a book on neurology. When a muscle stretches it actually weakens. e.g. an elastic band stretching is weaker then one that isnt. Why do something to weaken a muscle to try to force an arm to sit better (what is better?). When a muscle can find natural length and be strong? I feel more than ever that it is not a worthwhile thing to do. However I am open to other insights into this. Thanks Rob. It is great to question this subject. LOVE

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Muscles are supposed to change length and be elastic. If the muscle is overly rigid and stiff that is not strength. That is brittle. See the muscle's of most elderly people. The muscles are stringy and stiff. This will also lead to poor circulation in the tissue. The arm bones turn in over time because everything we do is in front of us. We drive, eat, sit at the computer etc. and the arm bones become distorted over time.

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Muscles are supposed to change length and be elastic. If the muscle is overly rigid and stiff that is not strength. That is brittle. See the muscle's of most elderly people. The muscles are stringy and stiff. This will also lead to poor circulation in the tissue. The arm bones turn in over time because everything we do is in front of us. We drive, eat, sit at the computer etc. and the arm bones become distorted over time due to how we use them.

robertemh Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - Relaxing in the position mentioned earlier allows the arm bones resume the proper placement in the glenoid cavity. Here, proper means the front of the arm faces forward, taking the pressure off of the brachial plexus (speaking of neurology). It is not intended to force an unnatural state but to correct self induced deformities. I have many text books on neurology. What did you feel I was missing?

holie6422 Says:

Sep 7, 2008 - This Yoga was boarderline torcher for me, and I'm young and pretty physically active. Just a liiiitle too hot, and class was a liiiitle too long! Other wise I think it's a great idea with the heated room and all. After it's all said and done, and you're released from the torcher chamber, you feel good and healthy. :)