The Truth (Vertigo)

OZoneGrl Says:

Nov 12, 2008 - If a person does all of these things, then they SHOULD know the love of God and believe in Him. I'm not saying that atheists (or other religious believers) can't do good works, but ultimately the gift of being compassionate to one another comes from God Himself, because He is THE God of love.If a person seeks to do good, then they are seeking none other than God. What ultimately drives us to be so compassionate to one another is the promise of His grace that our souls have never forgotten.

OZoneGrl Says:

Nov 12, 2008 - I'm sickened by some other Christians too, honestly.We're SUPPOSED to WANT to do good because of what we've been given - but let's face it. We're ALL driven to sin. It's in human nature.However, If a person truly HAS received the grace of God, then they really won't be horribly corrupt. They will know how to feel remorse, as well as how to seek God's mercy. It's quite a bit more than some 'get-out-of-hell-free' card. It's the drive to do what is good in God's eyes because of His sacrifice.

OZoneGrl Says:

Nov 12, 2008 - -.-; I think we can figure out that God didn't descend and type up a youtube video. People may be stupid but we're perfectly capable of displaying our love, beliefs, and emotion in our own creative ways. (I think we can also figure out that this isn't a person claiming to be God, so it's not blasphemy either, thank you.)Exactly what society has become: Godless. We're only like this BECAUSE we have rejected what the world truly needs: and that's grace.

OZoneGrl Says:

Nov 13, 2008 - And what does it even matter if you do good your entire life if you have it in your mind that it all ends with nothing? It would make ALL of our existences - whether lived good or bad - absolutely worthless.I have yet to see one charity that doesn't give in God's Name...because they know that they're doing it for someone who has shown THEM grace. To me, it makes no sense to give to charities and provide for others and then say "I don't even believe in a God that gave US grace and compassion."

roachapproach599 Says:

Nov 14, 2008 - so now youre saying someone that wants to do good automatically beleives in god? why do they have to believe in god to be a good person? BTW i never said that they didnt believe in god, i said they dont have to be christian to go to heaven. and if i didnt make that clear then im sorry. my whole thing is you dont have to be a christian to go to heaven. thats what im trying to say.

LordoftheRingsgeek12 Says:

Nov 16, 2008 - At first i was FREAKED out but when it started playing backward i knew the person who made this was a genius!! WTF people??? God DOES forgive you for your sins!! Come on!! I will say it to the whole world: I AM A CHRISTIAN!!! What is altruism and egotism??? I have no clue what-so-ever!! I also think that Lord of the RIngs is based on Christianity!! Watch it and see what i mean!! Just to clear things up: I love lord of the rings AND i am a geek also!! Let Jeasus live in our hearts forever!!!

agapemike Says:

Nov 16, 2008 - Tbt,"Logically man creates nothing. We are a system of natural processes...God is the result of ongoing natural forces.That is logic.""Logic is lifeless meaningless drivel."Does that mean you retract your first argument, that God amounts to no more than natural processes? You made those statements, called them "logic," then called logic drivel.Just checking.

agapemike Says:

Nov 16, 2008 - crabid"...since god...cannot be proven, I cannot believe in religion because any belief I could have would be held out of fear..."Why so? The modern understanding of God in many protestant churches has God offering grace. If you spend your life believing "the wages of sin is death," you live in fear. If you believe Jesus sets you free from sin, what is there to fear? I recognize the gift of grace and am therefore free from death. I respond to this gift by loving my neighbor. No fear here.

OZoneGrl Says:

Nov 16, 2008 - What I'm saying is that it makes no sense for an atheist to want to do good if they believe that ultimately all of our lives amount to absolutely nothing. I understand that they know that doing good is right, but do they even consider if it matters at all? Or do they try to shut themselves away from what really COULD happen in death?

OZoneGrl Says:

Nov 16, 2008 - And for those that DO believe in God, why shouldn't they also believe in Jesus? Or why would they believe Jesus merely existed as a man and not as our way of salvation, if the person believes in what the Bible has to say? It would be as if someone doesn't WANT to accept salvation, simply because they think their plan is better. People think they can live their lives as a 'good' person and not go to hell, but denying Christ is also denying God and his Holy Spirit- they are one in the same!

Twicebakedtaters Says:

Nov 17, 2008 - "Does that mean you retract your first argument, that God amounts to no more than natural processes?"We are no more. However blacks used to be less than human to whites. Therefore it is a matter of how one chooses to look at things that will determine what they see.Nothing of value comes from logic. One must accept the premise of value faithfully without evidence. Logic is meaningless without that foundation. All humanity rides the subjective turtle. It is our foundation.

Twicebakedtaters Says:

Nov 17, 2008 - "And for those that DO believe in God, why shouldn't they also believe in Jesus?"The act if Christ is profound and humbling.There are those of us who simply wish to accept responsibility for our actions.

Twicebakedtaters Says:

Nov 17, 2008 - I appreciate your depth of feeling concerning the acts of Christ. However there are billions of humans that understand things from a different perspective. Brahma, Alah, The great spirit, Yahweh, Teachings of the Tao. They all head in the same direction. Understand some of them could see you the same way you wish to look at them. Open your mind. Do unto others.The one teaching of Christ that says it all.

nessaluver350 Says:

Nov 17, 2008 - God and Jesus are one...fyi

agapemike Says:

Nov 17, 2008 - Tbt,Since you have put forth the opinion that nothing of value comes from logic, nullifying the scientific method, than will you do us all the courtesy of stating "I believe" when you make assertions like "We are no more [than natural processes]?"I don't believe making such a statement of fact is any more fair than any other person making statements of fact about thier beliefs.

agapemike Says:

Nov 17, 2008 - Furthermore, I don't believe you answered my question. You made a statement and attributed it to logic. You later made the statement that logic is worthless. In essence, you negated your authority to make the first statement.Your analogy to how whites viewed blacks is only an example of how mistakes can be made in assumptions, not a proof of the falibility of logic. Logic itself (if A=B and B=C then A=C) is sound. The processes of logic are complicated, thus we often find false outcomes.

agapemike Says:

Nov 17, 2008 - I find it humorous that you even participe in debate, which requires the application of logic. You provided an analogy to prove your point, another application of logic. You even used the word "therefore," a function of logic.I believe you need to explain yourself further before you dismiss logic, the very thing that allows you to make an argument. IF you don't THEN nobody will give your thoughts any relevance (sorry, I couldn't resist).

agapemike Says:

Nov 17, 2008 - "[we] wish to accept responsibility for our actions."I don't advocate that one MUST believe in Jesus...What keeps a poor man from accepting a hand-out? Pride.I do believe that once presented with the Gospel, it is pride that keeps many from accepting the gift of grace, feeling as if they want to be on their own, taking responsibility for their actions.This is stated with the premise that sin removes us from God (consequence) and payment is needed for that distance to be erased.

roachapproach599 Says:

Nov 18, 2008 - ok im done, i guess everyone who doesnt believe jesus saves them is automatically going to hell and being a good person doesnt matter. so i guess ill be going to hell when i die, yay. well i guess its a good thing hell is a load of crap now isnt it. have fun living your blinded life.

moggotson Says:

Nov 18, 2008 - Logic is only as sound, as you believe the premise on which it is based, to be.There is no logic without belief.

moggotson Says:

Nov 18, 2008 - "You even used the word "therefore," a function of logic."Logic is a perspective of construct. I never played well in boxes. I prefer the open spaces.

mythoughtsfortoday Says:

Nov 19, 2008 - You are right. But if one accepts the Salvation of Christ Jesus, They will be saved from hell. Did you only watch half the video?

Sethtann Says:

Nov 20, 2008 - If you are arguing about this video, then you are a perfect example of what is holding humanity back. The truth has always been right in front of us, in the form of literature that has been misenterpreted, and also literature that enterprets. Seek and you shall find. Notice that you MUST seek, and that is what so many fail to do in the everyday hustle and bustle of life. What I'm saying is there's no argument on this subject anymore. There are people who know, and people who are scared to know.

AzNsUpBeAt Says:

Nov 21, 2008 - y r we even argueing about this in the first place?i mean, its about what really works for youI've been an Xn for several years now, and i really do believe that Jesus really does work in our lives, but seriously, just cuz you don't believe doesnt mean that i have to h8 youbut, if you haven't given it a chance yet, try not to judge it so muchwho knows? it might work for younot every1 has to be Xn, but it doesn't hurt to give it a shot.this stuff saved Eric Clapton from alcoholism =D

paytonjadee Says:

Nov 21, 2008 - this is beautiful open your hearts people!jesus saves!